First and foremost before we confront this question, we have to face two other simpler questions, the first that is, is He really who He claims to be, God? Is God God? With this I means He the truest, purest, most potent, most beautiful being in existence? The eternal and unchanging?
If the answer is yes, it leads to the next question : ‘Does God know who He is?’. Does God know that He is all that is above? If He doesn’t, He is already not being a God because a God is a all knowing God, which if He doesn’t know He is a God, He is not all knowing and of course not God. But when God said Himself that, ‘ I am the Lord, that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols’, He has passed the test of being God, declaring Himself to be God.
So then, how does this lead to the question, is God self- centered or is He an egotist? In everything that is created, the one and only motive that God had and have is that glorify Himself. In any decision that He makes, the thing He thinks about is in what way does it glorify Himself, and makes the decision. Everything was made to glorify Him, including us. God is only passionate about His glory and His glory alone. And He loves Himself more than He loves anything else. Now does that make Him a selfish, self-centered God? NO!
If God is God as He claims, means He is the best. No one surpasses Him in ANY way. He is the highest, the greatest, the smartest, the most beautiful, most loving. Then, how can the smartest, the wises God points all the glory and honor to anything else but the best, that is Himself? Are you with me?
If the greatest God doesn’t point all glory and honor to Himself, who else can He point it to? He is already the greatest, the most powerful, most loving, the smartest, the everlasting. And if the God that points the attention to anything else but Himself, He isn’t the wises God already because the wises thing to do and the only best thing that a God can do is to point all His creation to Himself.
That is the only thing left for Him to do! That is to point all glory to Himself cause there is no greater than Him. God has to first love Himself more than anything else before He can love other things. If He doesn’t love Himself, He won’t be called first before He love anything else, He already directing the focus of glory to other thing where He loves most. Which means God is already glorifying other things other than Himself and is already placing His love in other things than Himself which also tells that He is dependant on other things which He is already not a God. So if God is God, this won’t happen. God loves Himself more than any other before He can love us and turn the Glory to Himself.
Is God self-centered? Is He an egotist?
Posted by Iv@n at 10:00 AM
5 Comments:
He's super awesome, yet He loves us so so much
oh yeah...
This is an interesting post, and one I've thought much about. It's usually something you wrestle with when you come into contact with any of Piper's work.
I just want to add my thoughts below. It's a bit longer than your original post, and I apologise for that (although to put things in perspective, if I were talking with you, it would not seem so long as writing usually appears to be), but if you can work your way through it, I think it's rewarding. I say this not to elevate my wisdom in any way. Rather, I'm just sharing what I've read and thought about and found enlightening and encouraging and pray the same will apply for you.
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I think to be slightly more precise, we must consider this issue from two perspectives.
The first is before the foundation of the world, before creation was even on God's mind. This is really a hypothetical situation, since God clearly doesn't perceive time in the way we do. But it's a human argument that appeals to our conventional logic.
The second is when God had creation in mind, not necessarily that He had created anything yet, but minimally He had the whole space-time continuum everything in view. Although again this is a false dichotomy/division, as the act of God conceiving and creating is likely one and the same.
Since God is unchanging, He should be the same in both states. Therefore, when He was alone (in the Trinity) before the foundation of the world, it is easy to argue that God must love Himself above all other things - Piper calls this God's righteousness, and biblically, God's righteousness is the foundation of His throne.
But if we now introduce creation into the picture, we are left to wonder how we fit into the grand scheme of things. What is God's ultimate end in creation? For this Piper turns to Edward's book - "The End for Which God Created the World." It's quite an interesting read, though a bit difficult to digest.
Very briefly, I think Edwards comes to the conclusion that God created the world for His glory, but also for the good of His created and redeemed saints. It might seem that biblically, God's ultimate end is still His glory, but equally His ultimate end is also the good of the redeemed saints. While they might appear two separate ends, they are in fact one ultimate end.
I say this to be more precise because we always place God as central in all He does, which is indeed proper and righteous, but let us not do this at the expense of forgetting that God working all things for our good is also His ultimate end. Although I must also add that this does not elevate our merit in any way, but magnifies the riches of His grace, and so all things continue to redound to His glory.
Expressing this in another way, we sinful humans have the tendency to be self-centered. When God changes us, we become God-centered, because He becomes the delight of our newborn hearts. But don't make the mistake of thinking that our self-centeredness is displaced by a God-centeredness. In a more truer sense, it is swallowed up in a God-centeredness. Our 'self' expands as Christ encompasses us into His being. In a mysterious fashion, God enfolded our good into His glory. Our good is not some means to an end that God does not value. He values our good as highly as He values His glory, because they are one and the same. This might lead you to see the phrase 'the body of Christ' differently. We are swallowed up into His divine nature, yet we remain distinctly creatures, though very blessed creatures.
Which of course leads to Piper's famous statement: "God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him." They are not at odds.
Doesn't a thought like this make your heart explode with joy? For me it adds a richer shade of meaning to the 'incomparable riches of God's grace'.
On a more practical note, there are countless applications from this bit of theology. For example, if our good and His glory are the one and the same, we understand suffering better. We suffer for His glory, which works to our good. And because God created the world for our good, He is sovereign over all our suffering - He orchestrated every event before the foundation of the world. It is that sort of love we rest in, an unshakable love that will work all things for our good because He is righteous and is committed to working all things for His glory.
Thanks Ivan and Joel for two great theological posts.
As a youth, sometimes i feel that there is a lack of thought-stimulating topics in the church-youth environment. This being said, I am grateful for being able to have a good read just now.
Firstly, I agree that if God is omniscient, all glory should undoubtedly point towards him from us, as well from himself. However i doubt God's glory and his love can be quantified - as these are characteristics that are infinite in value. Therefore God loves us as he does himself in a magnitude inconceivable in quantity and comparison.
In conjunction, God created us in order to exemplify and magnify his grace and mercy to us, so that we may experience his ultimate and unconditional love. In reward, through the death and resurrection of Christ, and later through judgement after a second coming, we are blessed with the opportunity of entering God's kingdom with a mindset of praise and worship. Quoting from Joel's post, we are in no way elevated in merit, rather, all for God's will and glory. In this sense, God achieves personal glory through BOTH his sacrifice on the cross in propitiation of our transgressions and through our (and angels for that matter) satisfaction and worship.
Lastly, i would like to bring up a question. Does anyone think that it is dangerous to deduce God's will, purpose and identity through thought-processes that does not use biblical verses as a base? I don't have any convictions yet to the question, but i do feel that perhaps this is why many occult-like churches form. Firstly people are in desire of personal gain, secondly there are those who think they can reach God's level (or at least a level higher than everyone in understanding Him), and third for those who simply commit to their own theories without much reference to God's word. I find these sort of churches and certain individuals rather disturbing and dangerous. Haha
But anyway, glad to read both posts and looking forward to more.
Thanks!
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